Delegate Vote Challenged, 18th District Could Lose All GOP Delegates

by lewwaters

The fiasco known as the 2012 Clark County GOP Convention may be over, but the results of it are far from done. Irregularities and questionable delegate votes has prompted at least 2 Mitt Romney supporters, who were credentialed delegates from the earlier caucuses to challenge to delegate selection in the 18th Legislative District where Romney, who won the caucus straw poll, ended up with very few delegates, while Ron Paul who didn’t fare well in the caucus came out with the majority of delegates to the state convention.

Much finger pointing and blaming of each other followed the close of the convention that ended up with Clark County Republicans only being able to send 75 delegates and no alternates to the state convention in Tacoma, instead of the allotted 94 delegates and 94 alternates.

There is not much sense in rehashing the blame game here as from where I sit it appears everybody had a share in the blame.

Ron Paul supporters initially received much of the blame, seeing the previously announced “caucus strategy” unfold all across the state and given that he ended up with the bulk of selected delegates after doing poorly in the caucus straw poll.

Clark County GOP Chair Brandon Vick ended up accepting blame for the fiasco.

Comments made at the close of the convention claimed there would be challenges to the result and as said above, at least 2 have made good on their claim, sending WSRP Chair Kirby Wilbur statements of the irregularities and possible fraud in the delegate selection in the 18th.

I was sent a copy of the Supporting Documents sent to the WSRP by GOP Delegate Nathan Mellor, from Precinct 925 and GOP delegate Ernie Geigenmiller from Precinct 960, who I also a reporter for Lacamas Magazine and who produced a short video documentary of the fiasco available here.

A DVD of the documentary was included to the WSRP along with sworn statements by both delegates.

Noting that Credentials Committee Representative Margie Ferris declared 213 delegates were credentialed to vote for delegates to the state convention, Mellor goes on to note 284 votes were cast in the first vote.

Mellor alleges only one of two possibilities could account for there to such a discrepancy, “Either a significant number of people who voted who were not properly credentialed. Or else credentialed delegates cast multiple ballots.”

Both would amount to fraud in the delegate selection.

Mellor continues, “Despite such fraud and over the repeated objections from delegates in attendance, the caucus leadership permitted the results of the election to stand.”

Mellor is calling for the delegate selection in the 18th district to be “set aside” due to “significantly more ballots were cast than the number of eligible voters (credentialed delegates) present at the caucus,” only 213 being credentialed but 284 ballots being cast and adding, “The fraudulent results of this caucus must be struck as void, and the delegates and alternates elected from the 18th L.D. should not be seated at the state convention.”

Mellor reported the discrepancy to former Clark County GOP Chair Brent Boger, who was also a caucus official and quoted him, “We think the 284 number is correct…but cannot verify that; so we’re going to county everyone in the room … and if we are fairly close to 284 we can just accept that number.”

Requests for delegates to be re-credentialed were rejected as the convention was nearing running over the allotted time, which it ultimately did anyway.

In spite of Romney being the clear winner in the caucus straw poll held earlier in February, not a single Romney delegate was chosen as a delegate at the end of voting for the 32 delegates to go to Tacoma.

Washington state co-chair for Ron Paul, Katja Delavar is quoted by Mellor saying, “I am at peace tonight. I can happily lay my head on my pillow tonight for what we did. We wiped out the Romney people and our voice was heard,” an obvious reference to the “caucus strategy” to force the GOP to accept Ron Paul, even though he has not won any major state primary or caucus and lags well behind in both delegates and in legitimate polling.

Echoing Mellor, Brent Boger added, “it would be embarrassing to have no representation from the 18th LD, but to have no Romney delegates from a district that went overwhelmingly to Romney is simply wrong” and adding, “It was clear there were alternates that should not have been there.”

Mellor also states in his complaint, “Individuals who had not been credentialed were permitted to mix with delegates on the floor and ballots were distributed without verifying credentials. These individuals could have been alternate delegates, they could have come from other counties, or they may even not have been registered voters or Washington voters.”

WSRP Chair Kirby Wilbur responded to Mr. Mellor, “The credentials committee will review the challenge, and make a determination of how to proceed. WSRP staff does not evaluate the materials upon which credentials challenges are based, or whether the challenge complies with the convention rules. Those decisions are made by the convention’s Credentials Committee.”

The documents arrived in my inbox with the comment, “The establishment Romney machine is determined to steamroller the local republican processes.”

I find the comment ironic in that by all appearance, it was Romney’s delegates who were properly credentialed and ultimately “steamrollered” during the convention.

I also find it ironic that although Ron Paul supporters were lauded for their excellent organizational skills in using procedural motions and maneuvers to disenfranchise the Romney supporters and deny them their place in the state convention, the Romney supporters come under fire for also using procedure to launch a legal challenge to the delegate vote.

It is completely unknown how the Credentials Committee will view the challenge, but should they uphold the challenge, the 18th Legislative District is in danger of none of their delegates being seated or recognized at the state convention upcoming in Tacoma.

As we thought the dust was settled in the fiasco known as the 2012 Clark County GOP Convention, it appears to be kicked up in a most contentious manner.

Regardless of how the Credentials Committee rules, the Clark GOP convention of 2012 will be long remembered as a Royal SNAFU (Situation Normal, All Fouled Up).

More information on the challenge may be read at Lacamas Magazine here and here.

Rebuttals to the challenges here

60 Comments to “Delegate Vote Challenged, 18th District Could Lose All GOP Delegates”

  1. This is an insanely painted commentary on what happened at the convention. Between Ron Paul and Rick Santorum, if they made a deal, they had clear majorities in both delegates and straw poll votes. You cite no numbers, because if you did, your arguments would look ridiculous. You quote only Romney people because you are a Romney shill. They were the ones who tried to shut out Ron Paul at the convention, and their strategy completely blew up in their faces. They were also the ones RUNNING THE CONVENTION. The head of the Romney campaign was running the 49th LD vote. The head of the Santorum campaign was running the 17th vote, Mary Graham, a Romney supporter, was running the 18th. Ron Paul had NO LEADERSHIP POSITIONS there. The fact that you try to blame Ron Paul for ANY of this chaos shows your lack of understanding and/or intellectual honesty.

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  2. The commentary is about what is alleged in the legal challenge.

    Or did you skip over “There is not much sense in rehashing the blame game here as from where I sit it appears everybody had a share in the blame.”

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  3. You might also look to see who was elected on that first ballot in the 18th that was supposedly ‘cheating’. They were ALL Santorum delegates, no Ron Paul people. THis same pattern happened in all three LD’s, it wasn’t unique to the 18th. The reason Ron Paul supporters were lauded for their organization skills is because after Romney tried to make a deal with Santorum to shut Paul delegates completely out of the process, the Paul campaign was able to make a better deal at the last minute and win Santorum over to their side. Something tells me that if the Unity Slate had been successful in completely shutting out the campaign that took a close second to Romney in the Clark County straw vote, you would not be whining at all. You and your friends are just mad because your candidate’s shenanigans didn’t work in Clark County as the did in other parts of the state.

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  4. Typical Paulbot reaction.

    Nothing in your rant affects the legal challenge, which is what the post is about, not the convention itself.

    Actually, I’m not mad at all nor do I support Romney. I oppose Obama and can clearly see Ron Paul doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming president.

    Ya’ll rely on procedural moves to coerce the selection of Paul and those challenging the results are using a procedural legal challenge too.

    It would appear that it is you all who are the mad ones, seeing the “strategy” might backfire on you.

    Time will tell.

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  5. ‘Procedural moves’? You mean, like, VOTING? It seems pretty obvious that the convention rules are just so much voodoo to you, as far as your grasp of them goes. What motions and procedures are you referring to specifically? Your whole piece is a showcase in ignorance, from beginning to end.

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  6. A legal Challenge based upon the discrepancy in ballots cast versus the number of credentialed delegates announced being some 30% less is also a procedural move.

    Clear the Ron Paul crap from your eyes, Robert.

    This isn’t about the convention, but the legal challenge initiated against the results and the potential outcome.

    As stated, the credential committee will make a determination on just how “ignorant” it is, or not.

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  7. In response to this posting – here are the general reasons a portion of the Santorum delegates executed the open slate strategy at the Clark County Convention. And why there was nothing ‘unfair’ about this for Romney supporters.

    1. The establishment must go: The citizens that supported the open slate were of a mindset that the Republican establishment at the federal level is unable to solve our county’s serious problems. Day in and day out they scheme with the left and the crony capitalists in big business. Or when they try to counter the left on various matters–they are feckless and weak. They will drive us slower to the cliff than the radicals driving now. They must be replaced. Romney is comprehensively beholden to the establishment–as they deliver him support and favors throughout this nomination process. So we resist Romney as our nominee until the day there are no other reasonable options. After that it is full steam ahead to beat Obama.

    2. Republicans not for Romney the easy majority: At a national level there were always many more non-Romney participants, than the pro-Romney participants. But for months the legitimate influence of the non-Romney participants was weakened based on these votes being split over multiple non-Romney candidates. The Romney strategists and friends in the establishment and media fully took advantage of this dynamic. This is the political process–but it helps underscore that any effort to influence national delegates needs to be seen in the context of the national nomination process. Anyone claiming that a particular front on this nomination effort (e.g. Clark County) has to go a particular way (based on some apparent preference based on a straw vote and/or ratio of county delegates) is a simplistic interpretation at first, and manipulative for those who know better.

    3. Unfair for Romney? On a national basis the opposite of this is true. In addition to item 2 above, the following are some of the many places this national nominating process was unfair for any non-establishment candidate.
    – Overcoming Romney’s name recognition from prior candidacy and years in public view.
    – Romney’s large financial resources from personal wealth, well oiled donation machine, and establishment influence to generate donations (by the way – driving a highly negative campaign — full of inaccuracies about opponents).
    – Republican establishment and old media press support–constantly backing up the ‘inevitability’ message.
    – Romney having no competition in some states based on opportunistic rules that confounded the less strong candidates (e.g Virginia).

    Mark Engleman
    Clark County – Precinct 190
    A member of the open slate Santorum group.

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  8. And none of that changes that the credentials committee is now charged with looking over the results and deciding whether or not the results stand.

    The main challenge remains, 213 delegates announced as credentialed and 284 casting ballots.

    The fallout from the fiasco continues, regardless of what any Romney, Santorum or Ron Paul supporter has to say about the convention.

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  9. “Ya’ll rely on procedural moves to coerce the selection of Paul”

    I’ll ask you again. What procedural moves are you referring to? The true conservatives, Paul and Santorum delegates, had the majority of elected delegates at the convention, and they made a slate together. Predictably, that slate prevailed. So what in the world are you talking about? This challenge has no merit, it is complete sour grapes. I doubt you will report on the findings when they don’t go your way.

    Your goal here is to get a duly elected delegation dismissed. This is total establishment thinking. Control the vote. If you can’t find a way to win, get the vote thrown out, or stop the convention before the vote can happen. We have figured out the rules and how your friends have been controlling this process despite the conservative majority in the Republican party. If I were you and your pals, I would start looking for the most graceful exit. Your monopoly on this process is ending.

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  10. Kinda torn about this.

    I’m an uncommitted 18th District delegate.

    The statement concerning the credentialing report is correct… and the vote versus delegate report was never adequately explained.

    As a Paul opponent, I can tell you this, based on my decades of experience and political science degree:

    In the 18th, Paul’s people implemented Rule One:

    They showed up.

    They then implemented Rule Two:

    They were militantly organized.

    Then they went on to Rule Three:

    They knew the rules.

    Then Four:

    They made their deal: both sides of the deal stuck to the deal. (Their mission: kill the unity slate and vote for each other to block any other delegates)

    I have replayed the tapes in my head a hundred times. And my conclusions are this:

    As near as I can tell, they did nothing illegal. Annoying, maybe, but not illegal.

    Let’s remember, no Paul supporter I was aware of had any role in running any aspect of the convention.

    The vote challenge in the 18th is well-founded. The entirety of the problem is this:

    Credentialing, which took forever, announced 213 delegates.

    First vote had 284 votes. No one really knows why… or how that happened…. but it did happen.

    My guess, and it’s purely a guess, is that the 18th will, as a result, lose all of its delegates as a result of the findings of the credentials committee. But the findings of the credentialing committee are not final, and any decision made by any committee is subject to a floor challenge and a floor fight.

    If there is to be skull-duggery, it will likely occur at the opening of the convention where, with a straight vote, the Paul/Santorum delegates can take over complete control of the state convention, start to finish. If they can accomplish that, then you can easily envision the results.

    In fact, if they CAN accomplish that, then all the delegates from Clark County will be seated. If they can’t, then expect the delegates from the 18th to be tossed.

    While at the convention, I voted for the Romney/Gingrich slate, the only reason I did that is because of Santorum’s deal with the devil.

    I’ve opposed, and will continue to oppose ALL of these people. But my position doesn’t change the fact of the matter: Paul’s people are likely to take a run at taking over the entire convention. And based on the incompetence displayed across this state by Romney’s people (Jeff McMorris was not the best choice for this job, by the way) it’s likely there’s nothing Romney can do about it.

    Let’s remember the “If the shoe was on the other foot” rule. And if it was, Romney likely would have done the same thing.

    Our system has many weaknesses. The Paulistinian’s researched the system, found the weaknesses and exploited them. The problem wasn’t Paul’s people; if you don’t like the outcome, then change the system. Base the delegates on the caucuses or something. But even that has weaknesses… so, perhaps, just holding a statewide primary might do the trick?

    But we cannot cry over spilt milk. Once again, the establishment has been out-thought, out-maneuvered and out-executed. Wasn’t the first time… won’t be the last. There’s a reason this state has been so darkly blue it’s almost black for the last 30 years or so.

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  11. Robert, I will not play your silly games of semantics and Roberts Rules of Order. I have personally seen Ron Paul supporters carrying the book around with them at various functions and skimming through it to see what can be used to cause delays and disrupt. You re either unaware of what goes on, or being disingenuous.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/01/ron-paul-s-delegate-strategy.html

    My “goal” here is to let people know there is a legal challenge launched against the results. I don’t even live in the 18th district nor am I a part of the challenge.

    But in typical Paulbot fashion, where no dissension is to be tolerated against your messiah, you wish to detract from the challenge with nonsensical comments that have no bearing on the challenge.

    Don’t count your chickens before they hatch on your “revolution.” The vast majority have repeatedly rejected Ron Paul, in part due to his idiocy on foreign policy and ready acceptance of support from anti-Semites, White Supremacists and others. If he had the popularity and support you only think he does, you wouldn’t be depending on things like the “caucus strategy” to nudge out others and install his delegates. He would already have the delegates.

    And with the challenge, ya’ll just may be beat at your own game.

    That has a tendency to happen when you disenfranchise so many others.

    It’s a constitutional sort of thing, based upon the party rules. You should embrace it, LOL

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  12. I think a primary, stopped this year by Gregoire and her willing accomplice Sam Reed to save money, would have precluded this whole mess.

    I believe the Ron Paul people trying to take over the convention is a strong likelihood, should the credentials committee agree with the challenge.

    The rules do need to be completely revamped.

    The dust is far from settled in this years conventions.

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  13. Once again, you are unable to cite any rules manipulations at all. You are lying, plain and simple. The challenge in the 18th is not over who had a legitimate majority; everyone knows the open slate had the majority and it was inevitable that they would prevail based on numbers. The challenge is about the Romney people running the convention and their inability to count, their total lack of preparedness for the number of delegates that they knew had been elected at the caucus level, and their general lack of planning or knowledge about how to run a convention, for which all participants suffered a terrible day of waiting. Many of these fine people then went home to find that instead of having no means to hold the establishment accountable, they themselves were being blamed for showing up and voting. Unreal!

    This is not about a candidate anymore. This is about a local party who doesn’t care to allow participation by the unwashed masses, and will do everything they can to shut those voices up, including manipulating the voting system to suit their continued control (see K.J. Hinton’s post above). This is about a party that has been ruled by RINO’s way too long. Brandon Vick and his merry band of elitist liberals must go.

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  14. Like I told you, play your silly games with someone else.

    This is about the challenge to the convention results and not the convention itself.

    Your comments on Brandon will not build any support for Ron Paul and will actually accomplish the opposite.

    You Paulbots have yet to understand that denigrating those you want to support your messiah is not the way to do that.

    You alienate far more people than you realize.

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  15. I think it’s pretty clear from your article and the writings of other Romney people who is doing the ‘denigrating’ here. You are trying to blame Ron Paul people for something that obviously had nothing to do with them, and, in fact, the blame lies totally at the door of your pals in the party. Am I worried about alienating them? No, I want them out of there. They are trying to control the voice of the majority of Republicans in this county, and when any group stands up to them, those people are ‘the devil’. There was only one problem: everyone saw at the convention that they weren’t the devil, that they were honest folk who faithfully stayed and voted. Then your narrative started to quickly unwind. Uh oh.

    Keep spinning it, if you think it will do any good. Your days in charge are numbered.

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  16. If you had taken the opportunity to read the linked to documents on the challenge, you might have seen I was quoting them. But squelching any dissent against your messiah is more important.

    Trust me, you do not have anywhere near “the majority of Republicans” in the county. If you did, you wouldn’t need the “caucus strategy” to get delegates for Ron Paul, he would have already had them.

    I can’t help but wonder if you’ll display the same arrogant snotty attitude later today when I post the rebuttals to the challenge.

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  17. Lew,

    I was a Santorum delegate to the state convention, and a strong advocate of the “Open Convention Slate”.

    Regarding your reporting of the 18th district challenge.

    1) There are more than than only “only one of two possibilities (which) could account for there to (be) such a discrepancy”, and any open-minded reporter would note this: THE CREDENTIALS COMMITTEE REPORT MAY HAVE BEEN IN ERROR

    I happen to know that this possibility was being widely considered at the time. I heard Brent Boger make the statement you have attributed to him in this article, and in his defense, that statement was made based upon the fact that a MISTAKE IN THE CREDENTIALS REPORT was being strongly considered as a possible explanation.

    I helped assist Margie Ferris in her tallying of the credentials report for our district 17, and because she had assistance we were able to count it twice by two different methods with different eyeballs and assure our count was right (at least as accurate as the multiple pages of reports she was attempting to summarize). I can tell you if she was left to her own devices doing so in the 18th, that the possibility of human / arithmetical error in the tally of the credentials reports was great, and she should not be disparaged if that’s what occurred.

    2) The fact that ballots were allegedly handed out wontonly is of concern, but, what really matters is how they were turned in. In the 17th, we required presentation of credentials AND ID, and checked the name off against the lists in order to turn in our ballots. The number of ballots distributed in the 17th was therefore irrelevant. This was one of the reasons the process was slow in the 17th, but was our way of assuring the integrity of the process. I do not know what they did in the 18th at the point of turning in the ballots, but the fact that ballots were allegedly not controlled at the point of distribution, or that someone had more than one in their hand, is not proof that there was fraud or even shenanigans.

    Regarding other statements in your article: I’m sure you’ll dismiss this as irrelevant to the 18th challenge, but, IT IS RELEVANT TO YOUR REPORTING SO MAN UP ABOUT IT.

    “Winning the straw poll” and “winning the caucus” are NOT synonymous. Our own GOP party had published ON THEIR WEBSITE that the straw poll was “irrelevant” to the outcome. That it would be trumpted by the media, but that the only thing that mattered was whose delegates were elected to the county and subsequent conventions. This means that the person who “wins the caucus” is the person who receives the most elected delegates to the convention. The person who “wins the straw poll” wins the disingenuous media blather, which is all it is worth. And so the straw poll is used as a rhetorical whip to somehow discredit the ACTUAL LEGITIMATE PROCESS. It is disgusting and you should apologize for participating in that intellectually dishonest behavior.

    More information about my experience at the convention is available on my blog at:
    http://www.tread-not.org

    Lew, using the straw poll as a means to de-legitimize the only legitimate and meaningful part of the caucus process is something which all players should be ashamed. We know you are not that stupid. It pains me that you think we are.

    -Christian Berrigan
    District 17, Precinct 570

    P.S. It is unbecoming of the GOP to negatively castigate factions within our party as you and so many others have done. I was shocked how my experience working with the Paul people contradicted everything I had been told about them. They are upstanding, well-informed professionals with a strong sense duty. They go to the same churches and schools as supporters of other candidates. They are not monolithic and do not deserve the broad brush which they have been so unfairly painted. These perjoratives are simply lies being used by the establishment to divide and conqer the grassroots against itself. You should be ashamed for perpetuating such vile strategies. Leave the divide and conquer rhetoric to Obama.

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  18. What part of quoting what is in the challenge is it that you people don’t get?

    Will you all take the same attitude when I post quotes from the rebuttals to the challenge?

    What you personally think of the Paul people is of no concern to me, I have had my many run-ins with them that came close to fists to flying, they being unable to accept not everybody worships Ron Paul as they do.

    The divide and conquer is just as prevalent in the Ron Paul camp as it is anywhere else.

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  19. I think everyone here should calm down. Lew wasn’t taking sides, he was merely reporting on the available public information concerning the challenges to the seating of delegates. There are two sides to every story, and I’m sure Lou will post and comment on the rebuttals to the challenges if and when he receives them.

    That being said, the challenges rest on three items: a perceived overvote in the 18th district, an apparent case of someone voting multiple time, and votes made after the original 6:00pm convention close.

    1. Overvote: The Convention credentials committee chair made more than one error in the original tallying and count of the seated delegates. District chairs determined that all their delegates were seated, yet their numbers, which corresponded to the caucus elections, did not agree with the credentials committee chair about who had actually checked in. This tally was challenged and re-counted (I was a witness and signed off on the recount, although I wasn’t aware of what the issue was at the time, or the significance of the count). The fact is that the original 213 delegate count made by the committee chair grossly undercounted the number of actual seated delegates.

    2. There is much ado about one delegate having been seen and video taped with four ballots in his hand. My understanding of this was that this man was an elected delegate who suffers from severe dyslexia who was also helping his aged father – also an elected delegate – vote. Due to the pressure, this man punched the incorrect selections on both his and his father’s ballot, and asked for new ballots. The old ballots were marked void, and he used them to re-punch the new ballots. This was done in full sight of the 18th district chair. No fraud was committed.

    3. There was much chaos surrounding the vote to extend the convention to 8:00pm, as the districts had to be reassembled and the main ballroom dividers removed that separated the 49th and 18 meetings. Romney supporters by this time were well aware of what was happening, that their slate to disenfranchise the Ron Paul supporters was going down in flames and they were the ones being disenfranchised [one should note that the first attempt to organize a slate of delegates in this election cycle was initiated by the Romney campaign. Ron Paul supporters were not invited. This “unity” slate was NOT approved by the national Santorum campaign, and the local Santorum campaign manager was fired and replaced the next day for endorsing it.] Romney supporters were being generally disruptive and vocal about the vote to extend the convention – which should have been a no-brainer for everybody. At the end of the day, though, the vote was done appropriately, and the outcome to extend the election was passed. There is no way that anyone can suggest that the vote would have gone otherwise if it had been done in a more timely, parliamentarian manner.

    These challenges are specious, and taste an awful lot like the same sort of underhanded campaign tactics that everyone has been upset about Obama and his Chicago machine using. I’m very disturbed by the fact that our party establishment considers such tactics appropriate. It’s time the Government and the Republican party learn – or re-learn – that they work for the people, not the other way around.

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  20. Thanks for your info Sean. I suppose I should calm down, but the language about someone “winning the caucus” because they won a straw poll, and the pejorative remarks about people have got me a bit oversensitive. Or incensed, depending upon your perspective. Thanks for your post. Either way, I think the establishment can see the metaphorical torches and pitchforks on the horizon.

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  21. Not part of the challenge or rebuttal, but reading Ron Paul saying he is suspending campaigning and still pursuing delegates could also be seen as a eye opener to those opposed to him.

    “We will no longer spend resources campaigning in primaries in states that have not yet voted,” Paul said in the letter. “Doing so with any hope of success would take many tens of millions of dollars we simply do not have.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/227227-ron-paul-wont-campaign-in-any-more-states

    That could be interpreted as an admission that even with a gain in delegates he hopes to see, he also knows he does not have voter support. After all, it is voters who decide in primaries and if he sees no chance of any success, as well as admitting little or no money left, indicates little chance of achieving any nomination.

    I doubt the announcement will have any effect on the challenge launched.

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  22. I’m sorry I ever touched the convention. I was not even a delegate having missed the caucus for a planned out-of-town trip. I was asked to be Rules Chair about a week before the convention. I was given very little latitude to make rules changes because the convention organization had already been planned. Rules-fixes to prevent the problems that occurred from occurring could not have been implemented because the infrastructure was not present. For example, I was even given a page-limit of two pages for the rules or else they wouldn’t fit into the program. Yet I took my role seriously and did the best that I could. The breaking point for me in the day was actually the issue underlying the 18th District Challenge: Too many votes for the number of voters. When I oversaw the process for upgrading alternates, it was obvious to me that the list I had was not accurate because I had seen many people shown as not present on the list with delegate badges: the list was wrong explains why there were too many votes in the 18th. The problem was aggravated by upgrading too many alternates. There was no time to correct this given the limited amount of time we had to get the convention business done. Whatever happened after that was going be a choice of many different bad results.

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  23. No one knows how the challenge will go, Brent. Given what I have heard of how the conventions went around the state, I am surprised there are not more challenges.

    I have received some well thought out rebuttals to the challenge that I will have posted in a little bit.

    From there we can only wait and see how the credentials committee views the challenge and rebuttal.

    The convention was a mess and I doubt it will go away any time soon.

    You did what you could with limited resources.

    It appears the party was completely unprepared for the convention.

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  24. Meanwhile, Paul bails. So, in the end, none of it will matter except to the Paulistinian fanatics.

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  25. It’s pretty plain that the entire party infrastructure was unprepared for the turnout and grassroots enthusiasm that this election is seeing. The precinct caucuses went from sleepy little affairs to standing room only events where there wasn’t nearly enough room and far too much noise to conduct any realistic business. Same with the county convention. In the long run this is a good thing, as people who get involved at this level are likely to stay involved, and even if they don’t, they have a much better understanding of how the sausage is being made. There are some understandable painful adjustments to manage the enthusiasm, which we’ll hopefully be far more prepared for next time (I can envision delegates getting seating packages prior to the convention next time, and electronic self-check-in on convention day).

    The good news is that I see this enthusiasm as a tsunami that’s going to clean house come November. It’s still in deep water right now, so no one is noticing unless they actually pay attention (Ha! Like the lamestream media does that?). But come late October, you’re going to see these ripples develop into a monster.

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  26. And, by the way, like it or hate, the challenges to the 18th are well founded. That a Paul supporter doesn’t think so changes nothing: The Credentials Committee presented the count (213) but the vote (284) was NEVER adequately explained or documented. Only the 213 CREDENTIALED delegates had a right to vote.

    The over-vote, in an of itself, is enough to invalidate the entirety of the 18th District delegate slate… since there is absolutely no way to determine who voted for who and if they were legally voting.

    Sorry, Paulbots. But it is what it is.

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  27. “It appears the party was completely unprepared for the convention.”

    How is that even possible in a Presidential election year Lew?? Against Barack Obama??!! I’m glad I don’t have a dog in this fight as I live in the 17th (where we have our own set of problems…) but what kind of Charlie Foxtrot operation are you people running over there??

    Just how in the wide world of Sports can the Republicans be unprepared for their own frickin’ convention??!!

    Someone who was supposed to be in charge clearly dropped the ball and allowed the never-to-be-suffiently-damned Paultards get the best of you people, and if you weren’t prepared for them to try and hijack your convention, then none of you have been paying attention and you deserve all the chaos and anarchy they just gave you.

    Un-frickin’-believable.

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  28. Yes…people who foul up conventions every which way from Sunday are to be pitied, while honest people who sit patiently for hours on end waiting for establishment people to figure out how to seat alternates are ‘fanatics’. Please, keep commenting. You are hanging yourselves.

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  29. This year’s campaigns have been contentious from the start. Everyone is so upset, rightfully so, with the path our government is on that they are passionate about getting the course changed. However, that being said there are many perspectives flying around out there as to how best to do that. I say to all of us that the best way to do that is to back the candidate that we are left with that will change the face, name, and vote in whatever position they are running for. We need this change to occur at all levels of government. We need to be forgiving and set aside our differing opinions once the candidate is in the final running for office. We desperately need to focus on that persons strong suits and work to promote those in the public forum while we attempt to get our personal message out that we want that candidate to be ethical and pro-American. Let’s hope that the state party republicans in power can find the strength and the means to accomplish that goal. No one is perfect people, no one. On a side note there were Paul supporters in the control mode at the Clark County convention. Kelly Stoner was one.

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  30. Let’s keep in mind that job number one is to get Barack Hussein Obama out of the White House as rapidly as possible.

    The Ronulans are useful tools that are being used to try and disrupt the Republican nomination process all over the Country, because only the Republicans are frickin’ stupid enough to put up with them.

    I am no fan of Willard Romney, but once again I will hold my nose and vote for the most useful tool I can see that will remove Obama from office. Ron Paul and his Paultards are not trying to help that process, they are hindering it, and if left to their own devices they will ensure the reelection of Obama. They can’t win, but they can sure spoil it for everyone else.

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  31. Well! the creepy old bastard just suspended his campaign, so all of you Paultards out there can head home to Momma’s basement for another four years. Better luck next time.

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  32. Ahhh…surreptitiously posing as a mild-mannered Santorum campaign head for Clark County, Kelli Stoner is actually an undercover Paul supporter who was pulling the strings at the convention to delay the seating of alternates. Even though 10 Santorum delegates were voted in at her meeting in the 17LD and only four for Paul, I’m certain that this conspiracy theory has legs and was the real reason why the convention was such a disaster. It all comes back to those fanatic Paul people!

    I’m so glad I came to this blog so that I could get the real story from people in the know.

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  33. Bear in mind Bob, that there are those who feel that seeing Obama re-elected would just be further “punishment” for the RINOS and “moderates” that have so corrupted the Republican Party, and the further destruction of America under Obama will push more Americans to the “trigger point” of total rebellion.

    In other words, some people think that America has not yet had “enough” of Liberals and the Left. By screwing things up and re-electing Obama, these bastards think that they can venge their anger at the Wimps as well as push them to the “tipping point”.

    The only problem with this “idea” is that by the time Joe Sixpak wakes up and grows a “pair”, it will be far too late.

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  34. Carolyn, I know Kelly Stoner, you obviously don’t, as she was a Santorum delegate and supporter, as was I. The vitriol, lies and other misinformation being bandied about disparaging Paul supporters is a blatant cultural / propaganda battle to divide and conquer the grassroots to perpetuate establishment control. I suggest you revisit your assumptions — as I was forced to do after my experience at the convention — and you will find that these folks are our friends and neighbors, professionals and laborers from all walks of life. It is easy when there is a bully on the playground who is not focused on us to sit idly by, hoping that we will not be next to receive his wrath. I for one have had it. People can cast all the aspersions upon me they want. I can’t support Ron Paul, but I am an avid defender of his supporters. I am done being played by the establishment game of divide and conquer, and I hope others will take some time to examine themselves and discover what level of gossip and defamation they have been participating in. I was doing it too, and hopefully this and other efforts of mine will be sufficient restitution. WAKE UP PEOPLE, the establishment is leading us over the cliff just as surely as the democrats are, simply at a slower pace which makes it harder to see our imminent demise. IT IS TIME FOR THE PEOPLE TO LEAD THE PARTY. Good-bye establishment. Your reign is over. I hope more people will ally with us in this effort to make our party a more honest and open organization — it should simply be a structure to facilitate ideas and candidates ascension from the people, NOT a vehicle to coronate their candidates of choice and preserve their own turf.

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  35. Robert, the people supporting Ron Paul only really succeed in pissing off a lot of people and little else. Is that a fact that you seem to “miss”?

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  36. Bob, your comments epitomize the vacuous simple minded pejoratives of which I speak in my prior post.

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  37. Jack, it is the establishment that is fanning the flames of this “pissing off a lot of people”. We are being played against each other. The establishment is baiting us to hate and distrust each other. I pray more good conservatives wake up to this fact. Our policy differences should be things we debate about around the kitchen table and the BBQ grill, not something used to inflame hatred and distrust, calling our GOP brothers “the devil” and such. It is UNDIGNIFIED.

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  38. Bob, if you were there you know darn well that the chaos in the convention had nothing to do with delegate behavior or contention. As to words like “hijack the convention”, that is completely intellectually dishonest. Will you please define the term “hijack the convention” for the rest of us less-informed plebs? Thank you so much.

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  39. There are a lot of factions “fanning the flames”, Christian. The simple reason that they are able to do so is because the good candidates were eliminated at the start of the season, and all the Republicans have left are worn-out old reprobates.

    Nobody wants Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul. None of those pukes are capable of “electrifying” America. The only thing a Republican has “going” for him is that he could run Obama out of office, not that he would be much “better”.

    It’s a sad state of affairs, we just need better candidates, that’s all.

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  40. Chris, you are right we are being played against each other.

    But I fail to understand how Paulbots can’t see they are playing the game more than anyone else.

    The rapid defense of Ron Paul in these candidates, not the challenge launched is evidence of that.

    In fact, I don’t believe any of you Ron Paul supporters have barely addressed the actual challenge, just defended Ron Paul.

    That is why I say ya’ll do not tolerate any dissenting comments on him, while you denigrate and demean everyone else.

    With Paul suspending the campaign for votes, what good does your vitriol towards non-Paul supporters do?

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  41. All of this blathering over Ron Paul doesn’t change the fact that he has been dismissed as a “K00K” for years. Why anybody would think that perception would be changed now is beyond me.

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  42. Lew has discovered what many bloggers and journalists have known for awhile. If you bait the Ron Paul supporters, call them names, and make all manner of ridiculous accusations against them, they are active enough to come and defend themselves, thereby increasing traffic on your page. Lew, you know what you are saying about us isn’t true, and you know that this challenge is based on a false premise that somehow Romney people can delay and screw up a convention and that this is somehow grounds for dismissing Paul and Santorum delegates. If this challenge succeeds, it will be all the proof we need that cheating is built in to this system, and the outcome of any election can be manipulated by the few who count the votes. Further, if the delegations in any of the three LD’s from Clark County are allowed to go to the state convention unfilled, I predict that no current board member will have their job by the next presidential election. We have had enough of your cheating and then trying to blame others.

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  43. The problem in the 18th LD was the credentials report done by the…..wait for it… credentials committee. There report to the 18th LD was “213.” Literally, nothing else was said. The alternates were seated by the ….wait for it…credentials committee. Then when there was a discrepancy of 71 the committee could not document it or even offer an explanation. The establishment GOP will lose even more credibility if they disqualify Paul and Santorum supporters because a Romney supporter on the credentials committee didn’t do their job. If they wanted to have a well run convention they could have asked the organized Ron Paul supporters for help. Will they next time?

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  44. LOL, Robert. You do give me great cause to laugh.

    All of the yelling, interfering, punking of other candidates, demeaning, name calling in your face denigrating of others is merely “campaigning” to you all.

    But, if we speak our views, then we are baiting Ron Paul supporters?

    Get over yourself, Robert. Ya’ll ain’t so important to us that we feel we must bait you.

    Oh, what I have said is very true. As I told you, I have had more run-ins that I care to recall, one such mentioned here and here

    You and Ron Paul are legends in your own minds, Robert.

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  45. It’s funny, I have heard scores of reports from the convention, and none of them involve Ron Paul supporters yelling, interfering, demeaning, punking…you are making this up. What I did hear was Romney people calling everyone the Devil, swearing at them, and doing their best to shut down the voting process as early as possible. All anyone has to do is read this very thread. The only name-calling, swearing, and applauding of removing delegations is coming from Romney supporters. Everything you accuse us of.

    I am about to increase the traffic to this thread even more, Lew. That should make you happy.

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  46. It’s laughable that anyone still tries to use ‘straw polls’ as evidence to anything other than an unofficial tally of who “people who don’t stick around to bother becoming delegates” might vote for.

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  47. Funny thing about that, Lynn, it’s Ron Paul supporters always boasting of him doing so well in straw polls.

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  48. Robert, you are right. I am witness to the FACT that the name calling and warnings (“You’re making a deal with the devil”) language was coming from the Romney camp. I did not witness ANY delaying tactics from ANY delegation, and the only delegation who was trying to prevent us from finishing our business, the only people who were trying to prevent the convention from continuing to vote, were…. Romney delegates. Facts are funny things. As a Santorum supporter allying with these folks, it was an epiphany for me.

    As it stands, there are too many ‘haters’ in this thread. I am going to have to take Jesus’ advice about such matters and cast my pearls elsewhere, as he so eloquently stated in Mat 7:6:

    “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”

    If you have a problem with that, argue with Jesus, not me. For those of you willing to “examine yourselves” and consider that we may be stronger in a harmonious alliance than we are as establishment-enabling bickering factions of buffoons, we would love to have you come with us (grassroots / teaparty / liberty minded) folks and change the culture in our Clark County GOP. For the rest of you enjoying the endorphin rush to get from castigating others, we will let you stand in the corner objecting to your coming irrelevancy. Hope most of you decide to come along!!

    Cheers, and on to better venues for the casting of pearls…..

    -Christian

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  49. As a county delegate and PCO I have to say that 99% of the Paul and Santorum, and (with a couple of notable exceptions) most of the rank-and-file Romney delegates, were polite, circumspect, and patient. If there were any deliberate shenanigans (which I doubt) those took place at the convention management level. Suggestions to the contrary, that allege dishonest motivations or actions by any significant numbers of delegates, are without merit.

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  50. You should also heed his warning of, “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves,” Christian.

    Just sayin 😉

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  51. The Credentials Committee made a mistake in the seated delegate count in the 15th LD also. There were only 21 delegates in that caucus- small enough so we all pretty much knew who each other were. And 21 was the right number if everyone showed- which they did. Yet, on the second read, the Credentials Committee said there were only 19 delegates. They were all screwed up all day.. How many delegates slots were there in the 18th? 284 Maybe?

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  52. Lew, and Mat 7:4,5

    How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    Just sayin’

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  53. I was a delegate in the 49th district and elected in the first round of voting to go to State. I saw a lot of ineptitude, lack of organization, and high emotions at the county convention. While we were waiting for the management to pull its collective head out, our district made an open mic available to anyone who wanted it. I was a bit cheesed when they arbitrarily closed the mic when I stood up to say something (I wasn’t even going to say anything partisan), mainly because the guy controlling the mic was an establishment guy who supported the “unity” slate, and didn’t like the idea that I openly supported the “open” slate.

    This kind of petty “lock out the opposition and keep them quiet” attitude is illustrative of what is wrong with the party establishment. I predict that the Clark County Republican party is about to become a whole lot more unruly for the “Establishment.”

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  54. Matthew 7:21 “ Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

    Your big mistake is equating Ron Paul to Jesus. He doesn’t even come close.

    Matthew 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

    Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

    2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

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  55. Is there anyone here who thought me quoting Jesus admonishing the arrogance of others was somehow equating Ron Paul to Jesus???? REALLLLYYYYY????? Are you really so self absorbed and incapable of rebuke that when I’m trying to tell people to look to themselves before they criticize others, that this is somehow me equating Ron Paul to Jesus?????

    All I said was I felt like I was wasting my time (mat 7:6) and then the other quote was about examining yourself before you criticize others. YOU were the one that started talking all the false prophet jibberish.

    I honestly, in all honesty, cannot imagine in my wildest dreams how you could come to such a blasphemous and dishonest and completely unsubstantiated conclusion. I am completely dumbfounded.

    Lew, you proved my Mat 7:6 point earlier in spades. This is a complete waste of my time. There is nothing productive to be gained here. Good luck with yourself.

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  56. Get over yourself, Christian.

    You brought Bible verses in pertaining to Ron Paul. That is an equation, whether you like it or not.

    As for the rest of your diatribe, my 2 Timothy 4:3 seems to fit you to a tee!!

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  57. Okay, so has everyone got that out of there system yet? Can we now move forward in an attempt to elect the NOT Barack Obama candidate? Can we move on to running our campaigns? Can we work together? I’d like too.

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  58. With anticipated ‘grey’ Waters, I still tread this eddy only to say, Lew, you have my love as a brother, but your heart and conscience I think to be misguided–certainly malinvested. You’re good at what you do–that is to say writing and rebuttal–although hurtful in what you must know (and pretend to not), or that which you simply have not (yet) found out.

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  59. Lew has a great blog and does a good job of kicking ass. Those readers who think they can “wear him down” or “discourage” him are just deluding themselves. Word.

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